In the end, we always end up returning to the historic center, not in an urbanistic sense but in a political one. Many say the current opposition is the best guarantee of the Meloni government's longevity: curiously, the criticism comes from both the left and moderates; it's one of the few things they agree on. This time, it's being relaunched by someone who has always called that (historic) center home: Pier Ferdinando Casini, now a senator elected with the Democratic Party but a Christian Democrat at heart. The former UDC leader will be at the Exmà in Cagliari today for the initiative promoted by Democratic Senator Marco Meloni ("Let's take stock," two days of meetings on various topics, starting this morning at 10:00 a.m.; at 4:30 p.m., a roundtable discussion on healthcare featuring, among others, former minister Roberto Speranza and Gimbe president Nino Cartabellotta). Casini will speak at 5:30 p.m. in the debate "Democracy in Crisis, World in Flames": "Without greater political unity," he warns, "Europe risks becoming irrelevant in international crises."
And Italy? What is its role in the current situation?
It's difficult to answer. It's not what our governments say, nor even what the opposition sometimes claims. Italy remains among the planet's important countries. But the game plan has changed profoundly, and this makes us more fragile. I'll give you an example that directly concerns Sardinia: the Mediterranean. Without a united Europe, and a common foreign and defense policy, Mediterranean Europe matters less and less. The stakeholders have become the Russians and the Turks. The classic case is Libya, where the Italians and the French have argued for years: but today both European powers are irrelevant.
Erdogan matters a lot now.
The Tripoli government is supported by Turkey, while Haftar is supported by Russia and the United Arab Emirates. The result is that the Turks and Russians have the emigration tap, which they can turn on at will. Italy, in this context, counts for very little.
Like Europe in other scenarios.
"But in fact, it's not as if Germany or even France, which is a nuclear power, matter much more. Irrelevance is a common risk. It's been said, with a striking image, that in a world of carnivores, there's no room for herbivores."
And we…
«We are in the second category, so we have to equip ourselves».
Is increasing defense spending one way to do that?
It's a topic often addressed superficially. It seems like defense spending is all about rockets, tanks... But the concept of security is no longer what it was after World War II. Today, the Ukrainians disable tanks costing billions with 50,000-euro drones. Cybersecurity is now crucial, for the defense of the country's strategic infrastructure, the protection of air and rail traffic, and even the prevention of fake news.
However, an economic effort on these aspects, while cuts must be made on the domestic front, is difficult for citizens to digest.
Yes, because politics, when it doesn't achieve results, loses its pedagogical capacity. It's obvious that the emergencies are healthcare, schools, and wages; and it's clear that people don't understand the cuts in these areas. But spending on a European defense system without the duplication of recent years is a necessity if we want to be free. Otherwise, we accept being subservient.
How do you feel about the new world order of the Trump era?
"Bad, because we risk leaving our children a world where rule has become force. The very process that led to the Sharm el-Sheikh peace is based on the strength of Netanyahu and Trump, to which others have adapted. It's a good thing Sharm el-Sheikh happened, but in the meantime, there has been a needless slaughter of thousands of lives."
Is this a reversible trend?
"You see, after the war, we and the US were united not only in a system of alliances, but in the construction of a multilateral model. 'America First' first of all demolishes that construct, which is typical of the West: because Putin or Xi, on the other hand, have no need for multilateralism; they are the products of another system, they guarantee themselves through force."
How can Europe regain a role in this scenario?
First, by building unity in foreign and defense policy. Europe cannot sustain itself on economic grounds alone. And on this too, it would be fair to say: we have the single currency, we have made a massive transfer of sovereignty to Brussels, but we have not done what Enrico Letta and Mario Draghi asked for, for example, on capital market integration. When Trump portrays Europeans as freeloaders, he's looking at the balance of payments. But that's just one aspect. The services we use are all American. We contribute significantly to the prosperity of the American system.
With every credit card transaction, for example.
"Cards, cell phones, the examples are countless. The innovation of American startups is financed by gigantic capital from European savers who go there, because we don't have a true single capital market. They're just freeloaders."
Returning to Italy, how do you evaluate the accusations against the opposition of exploiting the Gaza marches?
Look, I saw a deeply rooted collective sentiment in the country, calling for a halt to the massacre. The Italian public is more aware than we think: it is horrified by what Hamas did on October 7th, and it is horrified by a reaction that everyone felt was disproportionate. Five years ago, in the book "Once Upon a Time in Politics," I wrote that until the Palestinians are given the prospect of a state, there will be no peace in that part of the world. This is why I am absolutely convinced that Italy should recognize the Palestinian state, like France and the United Kingdom. That's the sentiment of the country.
Won't this cause problems with Israel?
This doesn't conflict with our historic friendship with Israel. The security of the Israeli state is everyone's concern, but we can't take away the Palestinian people's hope of survival. As for the accusations against the opposition... They say Elly Schlein said things in Europe that are harmful to Italy; then the other day in the Senate, Franceschini brought out the verbatim transcript of what Giorgia Meloni said about Italy when she was in the opposition, and the tone doesn't change much. This is bad for Italy, but it's a common problem.
What limitations do you see in the government?
"Aside from a highly recognizable leadership, the government's quality is low. The ruling class is remarkably mediocre. There are no answers to social issues; the budget is praised because it doesn't do any harm, not because it has any real impact. The government relies on the lack of an alternative; it doesn't shine on its own."
Some say that with this opposition, Giorgia Meloni will govern for twenty years.
"Unfortunately, this is a snapshot of reality. And I say unfortunately from every perspective, because a credible opposition also makes the government more credible. If the government doesn't feel pressured by a possible alternative, it suffers from a delusion of omnipotence. Full democracy is based on at least a potential alternation."
What could the opposition do differently?
First of all, I think that, in today's world, you can't be a credible alternative without a common foreign policy. Yet even these days we're seeing differing positions. On Ukraine, I really appreciate the Democratic Party's stance, which is holding firm, just as Meloni did when she was in opposition to Draghi. Because defending Ukraine is defending Europe. It's no coincidence that those who are against Europe don't understand this. We should ask ourselves why right-wing sovereignists are all pro-Russian. Europe's greatest enemy is Putin.
So there is no future for a broad coalition with the Democratic Party and the 5 Star Movement.
I understand the need to bring together different forces. Besides, I don't think Vannacci and Meloni are the same thing. Or Tajani and Borghi. But the difference is that in the center-right, on the political line, Giorgia Meloni ultimately calls the shots, while the opposition, without such solid leadership, is having a hard time.
Can Renzi's reformist project help the center-left?
It's essential to have a plurality of forces within the center-left, including a moderate, popular, centrist wing. Otherwise, the opposition is already penalized. Who should do it? Certainly not figures from the past, like me; rather, young forces with a fresh impetus, a vibrant energy. But it's absolutely essential for this to happen.
Joseph Meloni